Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/13/1999 08:03 AM House STA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
April 13, 1999
8:03 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative John Coghill
Representative Scott Ogan
Representative Jim Whitaker
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Beth Kerttula
Representative Harold Smalley
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 74
"An Act relating to salary caps and to the power to transfer
certain positions to the classified service and entitlement to
longevity increments for certain state officials."
- MOVED HB 74 OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 159
"An Act granting certain employees in correctional facilities
status as peace officers under the public employees' retirement
system."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 26
Relating to establishing maritime boundaries with Canada.
- MOVED CSHJR 26(WTR) OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 16
"An Act transferring to the Department of Health and Social
Services the authority to license all assisted living facilities;
eliminating the authority of the Department of Administration to
license assisted living facilities; and providing for an effective
date."
- HEARD AND HELD
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 74
SHORT TITLE: SALARIES FOR CERTAIN STATE OFFICIALS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) OGAN, Kohring, Cowdery
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/03/99 131 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/03/99 131 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE
2/11/99 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
2/11/99 (H) HEARD AND HELD
2/11/99 (H) MINUTE(STA)
4/13/99 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 159
SHORT TITLE: PERS PEACE OFFR STATUS CORRECTION EMPLOYE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) DAVIS, Smalley
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
3/25/99 568 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
3/25/99 568 (H) STA, FINANCE
3/31/99 642 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SMALLEY
4/13/99 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HJR 26
SHORT TITLE: ALASKA MARITIME BOUNDARY WITH CANADA
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) COGHILL
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
3/10/99 410 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
3/10/99 410 (H) WTR, STATE AFFAIRS
3/30/99 (H) WTR AT 5:30 PM CAPITOL 124
3/30/99 (H) POSTPONED TO 3/31
3/31/99 (H) WTR AT 5:30 PM CAPITOL 124
3/31/99 (H) MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE
3/31/99 (H) MINUTE(WTR)
4/06/99 661 (H) WTR RPT CS(WTR) 4DP 1NR
4/06/99 661 (H) DP: GREEN, PHILLIPS, JOULE, BARNES;
4/06/99 661 (H) NR: BERKOWITZ
4/06/99 661 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.WTR)
4/06/99 661 (H) REFERRED TO STA
4/08/99 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
4/08/99 (H) HEARD AND HELD
4/08/99 (H) MINUTE(STA)
4/13/99 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 16
SHORT TITLE: LICENSURE OF ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) CROFT, Dyson
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/19/99 22 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/8/99
1/19/99 22 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
1/19/99 22 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, HES
2/24/99 307 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DYSON
4/13/99 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 513
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2693
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as sponsor of HB 159.
DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant
to Representative Gary Davis
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 513
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2693
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered question on HB 159.
FRANCES REILLY, Educational Coordinator
Wildwood Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
10 Chugach Avenue
Kenai, Alaska 99611-7099
Telephone: (907) 260-7200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159 in support of 20-year
retirement provision.
HAL FIMPLE, Food Service Manager
Wildwood Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
10 Chugach Avenue
Kenai, Alaska 99611-7099
Telephone: (907) 260-7200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 159.
MARY SANDY, Administrative Clerk
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 159.
RANDY BLUM, Food Service Supervisor
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159.
GREG HORTON, Plumber
Maintenance Department
Wildwood Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
10 Chugach Avenue
Kenai, Alaska 99611-7099
Telephone: (907) 260-7200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159.
ED LINDQUIST, Registered Nurse and Nurse II
Wildwood Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
10 Chugach Avenue
Kenai, Alaska 99611-7099
Telephone: (907) 260-7200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 159.
CAREY QUIRING, Administrative Clerk III
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 159.
SHERRY APPEL, Education Coordinator
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159.
LORREL LUDY, Education Coordinator
Wildwood Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
10 Chugach Avenue
Kenai, Alaska 99611-7099
Telephone: (907) 260-7200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159 in support of equal
benefits for equal risk.
GAIL SELA, Nurse III
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 159.
CLIFTON REAGLE, Electronics Technician
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 159.
DON ETHERIDGE
District Council Laborers
710 West 9th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-3707
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Local 71 in support of
HB 159.
BRUCE MASSEY, Food Service Foreman
Lemon Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
2000 Lemon Creek Road
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-6200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on own behalf and as shop steward
for Local 71 in support of HB 159.
VINCENT O'CONNOR, Adult Probation Parole Officer
Department of Corrections; and President,
Alaska State Employees Association/American Federal,
State, County and Municipal Employees, Local 52
3510 Spenard
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: (907) 277-5200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 159.
GUY BELL, Director
Division of Retirement and Benefits
Department of Administration
P.O. Box 110203
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0203
Telephone: (907) 465-4471
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained status of fiscal note for HB 159
and answered questions.
CHARLES PALMER, Employee
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159.
RICHARD SLAGLE, Employee
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159.
MIKE HARBAUGH, Plumber, Maintenance
Spring Creek Correctional Center
Division of Institutions
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 2109
Seward, Alaska 99664-2109
Telephone: (907) 224-8200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 159 in support of 20-year
retirement.
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 400
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4998
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as sponsor of HB 16.
KAY BURROWS, Director
Division of Senior Services
Department of Administration
3601 C Street, Suite 310
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5984
Telephone: (907) 269-3666
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 16 with attached
fiscal notes.
SHELBY LARSEN, Administrator
Health Facilities Licensing and Certification
Division of Medical Assistance
Department of Health and Social Services
4730 Business Park Boulevard, Suite 18
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-7137
Telephone: (907) 561-8081
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 16.
MONTA FAYE LANE, President
Alaska Caregivers Association
109 East 5th Avenue
North Pole, Alaska 99705
Telephone: (907) 488-9159
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 16.
FRED LAU
Homer Seniors
3935 Svedlund Street
Homer, Alaska 99603
Telephone: (907) 235-7655
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 16.
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110601
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601
Telephone: (907) 465-1613
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 16.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 99-22, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES called the House State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 8:03 a.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives James, Coghill, Ogan, Whitaker
and Smalley. Representatives Kerttula and Hudson arrived at 8:09
a.m. and 9:26 a.m., respectively.
HB 74 - SALARIES FOR CERTAIN STATE OFFICIALS
CHAIR JAMES announced that the first item of business would be
House Bill No. 74, "An Act relating to salary caps and to the power
to transfer certain positions to the classified service and
entitlement to longevity increments for certain state officials."
Number 0017
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, sponsor, noted that HB 74 was heard
previously by the committee. He said it was introduced to bring
the pay for administrative branch employees to the same level as
that for legislative branch employees.
Number 0056
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL made a motion to move HB 74 from committee
with individual recommendations.
CHAIR JAMES asked about a fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN pointed out that there should be a significant
savings of close to $3.1 million.
CHAIR JAMES noted that the motion was to move HB 74 with individual
recommendations and the attached negative fiscal note. She asked
whether there was any objection; hearing none, she announced that
HB 74 was moved from the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
HB 159 - PERS PEACE OFFR STATUS CORRECTION EMPLOYE
CHAIR JAMES brought before the committee the next item of business,
House Bill No. 159, "An Act granting certain employees in
correctional facilities status as peace officers under the public
employees' retirement system."
Number 0096
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, told
members he was amazed when he went through the kitchen at Spring
Creek Correctional Center, Alaska's maximum-security prison, to
discover that most people working there, including the cooks, were
inmates. He has heard of a couple of instances where inmates
confiscated kitchen utensils to sharpen into tools to pick locks,
or to use as weapons. An employee had called and asked
Representative Davis why the employee's retirement benefits are
different from those of correction officers. When Representative
Davis started checking, it appeared that when the statute was
written and the correctional officers were negotiating, they
apparently just had a better union than the other employees had.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS pointed out that dangers to these employees
are as high as dangers to correctional officers. However, the
latter are better trained to deal with violence or in detecting
confiscations. It appears that this is an inequity that needs to
be addressed. The bill, therefore, is equity legislation that
designates these employees in the prison as "public safety
officers," which is, he believes, the term that put the
correctional officers, police officers and parole officers into the
retirement category of "peace officers."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS explained that currently these employees must
work 30 years in order to retire, whereas correctional and peace
officers have a 20-year requirement. The legislation allows those
who have been employed to "buy" previous years. There is no fiscal
note yet because of the time it has taken the department to do its
actuarials and determine the difference in costs.
Number 0191
CHAIR JAMES asked how the education of the correctional officers
and the other employees differs.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS replied that he isn't sure, although he is
certain that they don't go through the police training academy.
CHAIR JAMES remarked that she has a problem with the 20-year
retirement. She had worked ten years for General Foods, where a
55-year-old person could retire after 15 years; she compares the
kinds of benefits they had then, which she had believed to be quite
good, to the kinds we have now. She asked how the retirement
benefits for a person employed for 20 years under the Public
Employees' Retirement System (PERS) would compare to that person's
wages.
Number 0227
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS referred to an unspecified document and said,
"An employee may purchase credit for past employment as a
correctional facility employee by paying the difference between
what their contributions to retirement were, 6.3 percent - so
that's the correctional facility employees - and what they would
have been if the service was being counted as that of a peace
officer, seven and a half percent of their compensation."
CHAIR JAMES asked what the actual retirement check amount is after
20 years.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS deferred to Deb Davidson.
Number 0242
DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant to
Representative Gary Davis, Alaska State Legislature, told members
that each person receives a different amount at retirement, based
upon that person's income while working for the state and the
number of years of service. The average monthly income is figured
from a person's three highest years of income. For regular state
employees, she believes, 2 percent of that amount is then
multiplied times the number of years worked, up to ten years, plus
2.25 percent of that average monthly income for 10 to 20 years, and
then 2.5 percent of that income for the number of years over 20.
CHAIR JAMES asked what an average amount of retirement income would
be after 20 years, compared to that person's wages.
Number 0277
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he ventures to guess that it is between
40 and 50 percent, perhaps more, of the three highest years.
REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY suggested that the employees in question
probably earn around $30,000 per year. If that were the high
average, after 20 years a person would receive perhaps $1,600 or
$1,700 per month. [He later corrected this to $1,270 per month.]
CHAIR JAMES said that is generous. She recounted some of her own
history, then suggested that perhaps people should be encouraged to
be entrepreneurs, not just employees. A person who starts work at
20 is too young to retire at 40, she added, and those who retire at
age 40 often do something else. She said the amount being paid
includes both pay and retirement.
Number 0312
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA thanked the sponsor for introducing HB 159
and recognizing the difference between this type of job and others.
As someone who has spent a lot of time in facilities, she said,
there is an incredible amount of stress just from being in the
facility and "locked down." From talking with people in these
positions, there are high burnout rates, and it is sometimes
difficult to find people to do these jobs. She told the sponsor
that she assumes he had looked at a lot of jobs and decided that
this group is particularly deserving of this kind of bill.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS replied that he isn't sure how many inequities
are out there; this is one he was familiar with and had looked
into; some employees had indicated to him that they had been trying
to get some equity in this for a number of years. Representative
Davis told Chair James that he is sure many people share her
concern. He restated the desire for equity between these employees
and the correctional officers, then indicated he could find out
about the differences in training.
Number 0350
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN declared a conflict, noting that a
brother-in-law and a sister-in-law are cooks in correctional
facilities, one at the McLaughlin Youth Center and one at the Cook
Inlet Pre-Trial Facility. He said he hadn't heard from either of
those relatives that they feel threatened, despite fairly extensive
talks with both of them.
CHAIR JAMES commented that she knows of some people who make almost
more money now than when they were working, and that causes her a
lot of trauma.
Number 0396
REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY corrected his earlier statement. He said
that for a $30,000-a-year employee, it would come to about $1,270
a month for 20 years of service in a prison-type facility, which
doesn't seem like much money.
CHAIR JAMES said that is different from the numbers she has heard.
She asked testifiers to limit testimony to three minutes.
Number 0406
FRANCES REILLY, Educational Coordinator, Wildwood Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai that she has been
at Wildwood almost 15 years; if she retires after 30 years, she
will be 76 years old. She has as much contact with inmates as
correctional officers do, yet she receives no self-defense
training. Inmates come through her open door all day long. She
has classrooms on all floors, including one in the basement;
although she doesn't put female contract teachers there, she
commonly uses it herself. She supervises 13 inmates at their work
assignments, among them murderers, rapists, child molesters and
drug dealers. Ms. Reilly concluded, "Our jobs are as stressful as
correctional officers', and I feel that a 20-year retirement is
reasonable and fair for us."
Number 0442
HAL FIMPLE, Food Service Manager, Wildwood Correctional Center,
testified via teleconference from Kenai, noting that he had worked
there about 14 years. In his department are about 65 inmates, who
have the use of knives; in addition, hundreds of other items in the
kitchen could be used as weapons. Although Representative Ogan's
relatives may not be afraid, his own employees are. In the Lower
48, about 85 percent of all prison riots begin in food service
areas. Over the past 14 years, he himself has been involved in
many confrontations between inmates, or between inmates and staff.
MR. FIMPLE pointed out that support staff, in almost any
institution, are as responsible as anyone else, including the
superintendent, for the safety and security of the institution.
Furthermore, some support staff have more direct contact with
inmates than do some correctional officers. The "no frills" law
coming July 1 will make jobs even more difficult and situations
more volatile, because the institution will no longer allow
smoking; they are already experiencing problems from that. Mr.
Fimple told members that passage of HB 159 is long-overdue, then
stated, "Many of you have asked us to support you in the past,
which we did. And now, we are asking you to support us." He asked
that members please not draw a parallel between working in a
correctional institution, supervising convicted felons, and working
in a downtown department store.
Number 0476
CHAIR JAMES responded that she certainly sees the comparison
between correctional officers and others who work in the prison.
In addition, she believes that police officers and correctional
officers do put their lives on the line, about which she is
concerned. The other issue is a side issue, she added, that only
has to do with money.
Number 0485
MARY SANDY, Administrative Clerk, Spring Creek Correctional Center,
testified via teleconference from Seward. She described herself as
the "up-front person" who deals with visitors. She told members
that she and her family worry about riots, about the "no frills"
law and the reaction inmates will have to removal of cigarettes,
and about infectious diseases, because of the high rate of airborne
and bloodborne pathogens that she is exposed to daily. She feels
as much at risk working with the inmates' families as being around
the inmates themselves, as the families may blame those who work at
the prison. However, she is not exempt from dealing with prisoners
directly; if she is asked to go into the inmate area, she goes.
She is concerned that the prisoners are a lot larger than her, and
probably a lot angrier. Ms. Sandy stated, "I wouldn't want anyone
to retaliate on me. I live in a small community. Our names are in
the community paper all the time; the inmates have access to that.
And I do feel that I take a great risk coming to work every day."
Number 0514
RANDY BLUM, Food Service Supervisor, Spring Creek Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Seward that kitchen staff
never get away from the prisoners; there is high danger, as well as
high stress. In contrast, a correctional officer who starts to
suffer from burnout may be able to work at a post without daily
contact with prisoners. Mr. Blum stated, "We do not run for the
front door - as has been said in the Anchorage Daily News - when
something happens. Unfortunately, it could be that the slider just
went locked, and we're locked inside." He explained that if an
inmate's attitude skills are not up to par, he must terminate that
prisoner's work status, which under the "no frills" law will change
that person's whole life. The tension when terminating such a
prisoner is extremely high, and it is very dangerous. Staff
members at Spring Creek have been attacked, and one never returned
after she was attacked. Mr. Blum concluded, "In a combat
situation, everybody gets paid by their rank, but everybody gets
the hazardous pay and the benefits of being in that situation. I
just think the support staff should get that."
Number 0544
GREG HORTON, Plumber, Maintenance Department, Wildwood Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai. He agreed that
they are in direct daily contact with the inmates, 25 to 40 of whom
work in the maintenance department, where there is every piece of
equipment and every tool required to run such a facility. He
emphasized the stress from hiring and firing the prisoners, as well
as trying to run a skilled trade with them as workers. For
example, he had to break up one fight and has experienced numerous
verbal conflicts with inmates over procedures and security items.
To his knowledge, the plumber he replaced four years ago is still
on a medical disability from breaking up a fight. Mr. Horton
concluded, "It seems like we're second-class citizens at the
facilities in this respect; we're not treated with the same respect
as the COs [correctional officers]. I know in the past, when the
state had more money, the maintenance department was sent through
the academy down in Juneau. But through cuts and whatever else ...
we don't have that training anymore."
Number 0576
ED LINDQUIST, Registered Nurse and Nurse II, Wildwood Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai, indicating he has
been employed there 15 and a half years. The nurses are not given
any kind of self-defense training, he told members, yet the
potential for threatening situations exists daily, starting from
the time they enter the building. The diabetics come in at 6:30
a.m., as soon as the doors open, and staff are left alone with the
inmates throughout the day. Oftentimes, inmates wanting pain
medication or certain treatments don't like to hear what the nurses
have to tell them. Mr. Lindquist stated:
I'd say if there isn't a difference between our jobs and the
corrections officers' jobs, why is that we have four panic
buttons located throughout the medical office? We have one
door in, and the same door is the only way to get out.
Every day, it's just a stressful day, every day. You just
never know what's going to happen. Depending on the day, when
you have a sick call, you might see anywhere from six to a
dozen people within a two-hour time period. You have
medication passes, which are passed through a window grating
.... You're called everything in the book, by the inmates.
MR. LINDQUIST referred to a similar previous bill, and he expressed
hope that HB 159 will pass this time.
Number 0605
WAYNE ROMBERG, Food Service Foreman, Spring Creek Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Seward. He pointed out
that very few workers begin at age 20, because the state is looking
for skills, whether for nursing, maintenance or volume food
service. In his job, he is expected to train inmates, 90 of whom
are employed for food service there; it is unlike any volume food
service he has done, including jobs out on the Aleutian chain.
When correctional officers work a night shift from 11 p.m. until 6
a.m., the prisoners are locked down, yet he himself is there five
days a week, seven and a half hours a day, and in contact with the
prisoners all the time.
Number 0624
CAREY QUIRING, Administrative Clerk III, Spring Creek Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Seward that she
definitely supports HB 159. The suggested indebtedness is an
attainable goal for current employees, she said, and she doesn't
believe it would incur a debt to the state of Alaska. The turnover
rate is high for many employees there; she believes that HB 159
would cut down on the transfer of employees to other departments,
which now costs the state money in training replacements.
MS. QUIRING noted that they work daily side-by-side with
correctional and probation officers. She agreed that medical,
maintenance and kitchen staff are required to be around prisoners
all of the time, which brings a risk of exposure to diseases. Even
for those with little direct contact, there is still indirect
contact. Through reports, pictures, investigations, photocopying,
filing, et cetera, staff are required to process documentation that
involves the prisoner population, which Ms. Quiring believes is
part of the stress for some.
MS. QUIRING explained that as Class I employees in a 24-hour
facility, they aren't allowed to strike; without the support staff,
she doesn't believe that the facility would be able to function.
She pointed out that support staff can be called to report for duty
in emergency situations. For example, as a clerk she was called
upon during an escape situation, to assist with support functions.
Risk of hostage situations causes further stress. In addition, the
number of correctional officers is down, so the COs aren't there to
protect and support the staff, or the prisoners, which increases
stress.
Number 0687
CHAIR JAMES commented that she herself could not work there or do
what Ms. Quiring does, and that she understands those kinds of
pressures in the workplace. She asked whether the turnover is
because of stress, or because of better wages or retirement
benefits elsewhere.
MS. QUIRING replied that she believes all of those are reasons.
She has worked in the personnel office for 9 of her 11 years at
Spring Creek. She sees people leaving all the time. There is no
opportunity for promotion for some, whereas others leave because of
the pay. She believes that a "20-year-and-out" retirement will be
an incentive to keep people at the facility, and will lower the
turnover rate.
CHAIR JAMES asked whether there is any program whereby people can
move into a higher classification, for example, by taking a class.
MS. QUIRING said that is limited to only a couple of the class
series; it is not a possibility for most of the positions at the
facility.
Number 0696
SHERRY APPEL, Education Coordinator, Spring Creek Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Seward. She noted that
in 11 years there, she'd had two weeks' training, only part of
which had to do with security. She has been told that in an
emergency she should hide under her desk, she said, because the
inmates could break through the window and the door. She has also
been told that she is expendable, that the security of the
institution is primary, and that in an emergency they would secure
the institution first and then try to get the staff in her area
out, because she works directly with the inmates.
MS. APPEL explained that she supervises inmates and has the
responsibility of firing inmates, who sometimes are angry. She
stated, "I've been in situations where inmates have confronted me,
and I've had to depend on my assertiveness to back them down the
hallway to where the COs are, so that they could take care of it."
Ms. Appel stated:
I believe that we have equal risks, unequal training. We work
alongside the probation officers, who have a very similar job
to mine, except that they're allowed to spend a lot of time on
the other side of the slider, on the other side of the door,
where there are no inmates, in the records area. And I have
no responsibilities on the other side of that door.
Also, in case of an emergency, we are not allowed to leave the
institution, even though we are support staff. When we had a
sit-down situation, when I first came to work there, we were
all required to stay until they considered the situation under
control; none of us were allowed to leave the institution, for
the security of the institution. And I've been told that in
case of an emergency that I might be required to work in a
control room or to do other duties such as that. ... We are
not given any extra pay for hazardous duty, or there's just no
parity with us and the correctional officers that we work
with.
Number 0736
LORREL LUDY, Education Coordinator, Wildwood Correctional Center,
testified via teleconference from Kenai, noting that he is fairly
new there, having worked there a year and a half. He pointed out
the drastic differences working in the prison environment as
opposed to the outside world. When he went to work there, staff
were told that every employee is responsible for the security of
the institution. To him, HB 159 boils down to the simple concept
of equal benefits for equal risk, because there is definite risk
shared by all support staff and the correctional officers.
MR. LUDY stated, "When I went to work there, I found that there was
a very strong feeling among staff members - a fear, if you will,
from the inmates. We work with these inmates day in and day out,
and we recognize in our mind all the time that someday they will
not be incarcerated there; they will be out on the street, ... free
to do as they please." He explained that staff members wear name
badges that contain their date of birth, and some turn it around
backwards so that the date doesn't show. Staff are also very
sensitive about not letting their Social Security numbers get out,
"so we don't get scammed." Mr. Ludy recounted:
I made the mistake in the dining hall of asking one co-worker
there where he lived. And, of course, an inmate was walking
by and could have heard me ask it. ... It was reported to my
boss in the correctional center there, because this particular
colleague of mine was so concerned about answering that
question of where he lived, just by chance ... some inmate
might hear him, and it would be a stress to his family or
children. So, there's a lot of risk involved, and the staff
is very sensitive to that.
MR. LUDY said in some ways support staff are under more stress and
conflict than correctional officers are. For example, COs receive
training in handling aggression, plus tools such as pepper spray
and handcuffs, which the support staff do not. Support staff also
have a lot more contact than COs with inmates in isolated
situations, behind closed office or classroom doors.
Number 0776
CHAIR JAMES asked what information is on the name tags.
MR. LUDY restated that some staff members are sensitive to the date
of birth. The tags also contain the person's name, job title,
weight and height. He emphasized the sensitivity, stress and
underlying fear about letting inmates know this personal
information, because it could come back on the staff later, after
the inmates are released.
Number 0794
GAIL SELA, Nurse III, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified
via teleconference from Seward that she has worked there almost
three years out of her 28 years in nursing. She emphasized the
real inequity of benefits. Whether or not people favor 20-year
retirement benefits, a certain number of staff members that work in
corrections have been given this benefit, she said, while others
have not been allowed to have it.
MS. SELA agreed with the sponsor that better representation in
their union probably had helped the COs and probation officers.
She stated, "Speaking for my union, which is GGU [General
Government Unit], they primarily represent administrative staff and
nursing, medical, which, you would see, would be a large number of
women. ... Having [been] in nursing, and struggling with pay and
benefit wages for 28 years, we have all come to the conclusion,
many times, that often jobs or groups that are primarily women are
discriminated against; not only do they usually have less pay, but
the benefits are less. So, it doesn't surprise me ... that we
don't have this benefit available to us yet."
MS. SELA outlined the risks of nursing at Spring Creek. It is not
uncommon to have 10 or 11 inmates in the medical department at one
time; the dental facility is there, as well, so it gets pretty
crowded at times. There is an officer assigned, and there is
usually one officer in the medical department, who has a fairly
large area to cover there, as well as answering the phones and
helping out in the gym, if needed. There is an infirmary at Spring
Creek, where patients may spend 24 hours or more. If the officer
cannot accompany a nurse back in the infirmary, because there may
be inmates in the medical clinic area, for example, a nurse will be
back in the infirmary with two or three inmates, with two locked
doors separating them from the correctional staff. Ms. Sela
stated:
Another one of our duties is that ... if an inmate in House I,
which is a segregation unit, has to be taken down for any
reason, eight to ten officers suit up in SWAT-looking attire,
with helmets and gas masks, because we're going to go over the
House I, and they might have to pepper-spray an inmate to get
him out of his cell. They all go in there together, 8, 9, 10
of them, 11 of them, videotaping the whole thing. You can
imagine ... the status of the situation when they do get the
inmate out of the cell, how agitated, angry - if you've ever
seen anybody get pepper spray in their face. It is at that
point that they then ask the nurse - that is only in her
"scrubs," usually, for the most part - to go in and evaluate
this inmate as to whether or not he's going to require medical
care. To evaluate somebody, you can't do that through glass
doors; you have to kneel down next to them and take a look at
them, and sometimes we have to wash their eyes out.
I know that ... at CIPT [Cook Inlet Pre-Trial] years ago,
there were two nurses that were severely beaten by an inmate
in a "mod" up there. Both of those nurses have never returned
to corrections. At Wildwood this last year, there was a nurse
sexually assaulted. None of these things make the paper, ...
but they happen. We are told that we will never leave the
institution if there's a riot; we will stay there till that
... is cleared and everybody is safe. ... We're part of ...
the response team, and we're part ... of the plans. And, you
know, it was very upsetting to read in the paper that one of
our own personnel people, from Anchorage or Juneau, said that
we would be heading for the door if there was ever a riot.
I would like to invite you to visit prisons in your state
before making a determination. I know that Representative
Davis did this, and we did appreciate that. And I don't think
you can really appreciate the dangers that we're all in. And
to Representative Ogan, I'm not surprised that your family
members have not spoken to you about their feelings. I very
rarely share the fears that I have with my family, because I
don't want them to fear for me. So, I'm not surprised at
that. Most of the time, I'm defending my job.
And just one other thing: We do turn over a lot. ... A
medical staff turns over frequently. I'm always having to
hire and train, and that is for many reasons. Pay is one. ...
We're lower-paid than the hospitals in this state right now.
I make less as a supervisor than the average wage for a
Providence nurse. So, pay is one of the issues. And I do
think that having some better benefits might improve ... our
retention.
TAPE 99-22, SIDE B
Number 0001
CHAIR JAMES asked, "Of all the jobs you've had, which one have you
enjoyed the most?"
MS. SELA replied, "The one I'm in right now."
Number 0014
CLIFTON REAGLE, Electronics Technician, Spring Creek Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Seward that he had worked
on the facility as it was being built, and he has worked there
since it opened. He asked how many committee members had been to
Spring Creek Correctional Center.
CHAIR JAMES inquired, then informed Mr. Reagle that she was the
only one. She said she had been to other facilities, as well.
MR. REAGLE told members that it had taken him ten years to qualify
to work at his position, including three years in the military, two
years of schooling, and five or six years working in the field,
with no retirement benefits. He told members, "We're all skilled
trades professionals, and we can't just walk in off the street.
So, we spend a lot of time working to get these positions with the
state. So, we've already started a long time ago, as far as I'm
concerned."
MR. REAGLE emphasized that the particular prisoner population at
Spring Creek makes it a much worse place to work than other Alaskan
facilities. Almost from the day Spring Creek opened, he has been
verbally threatened. He was in a "mod" by himself with 100
inmates, for example, and a prisoner didn't like Mr. Reagle's
coming into his room to fix a smoke detector. "And he came out,
fists clenched, muscles flexed - he was about twice my size - and
he acted like he was going to pound me into the ground if I ever
came into his room again," Mr. Reagle said. "And I had to stand my
ground, by myself, with no help. That was a real eye-opener for
me, in what my career was going to be at Spring Creek. ... It
started that way, and it hasn't gotten much different."
MR. REAGLE explained that he is required to go into medical areas
to work on electronic equipment, "air handling," to ensure that
diseases are going out and not recirculating within the building;
he is therefore exposed daily. He referred to Gail Sela's
testimony and said he has also been exposed to gas. Furthermore,
he has been subjected to verbal harassment from locked-down inmates
when required to work in House I, including having several inmates
yell at him nonstop for three or four hours at a time, all day
long, calling him every name in the book while he is just there
doing his job. That is the kind of attitude and behavior these
inmates take towards staff, he said.
MR. REAGLE divulged that his fellow employees have had feces and
urine thrown on them, for which he suggested there should be a
death penalty. He then informed members:
Two inmates cut and bashed each other almost to death in our
maintenance shop, right in front of one of our guys. They
left the whole shop in a pool of blood. They took each
others' ears off. ... One guy had a retractable knife, was
actually trying to cut the other guy's head off, and
fortunately it was a retractable razor knife, and the blade
kept slipping in, and his hands were so bloody he couldn't get
the blade out far enough to cut the guy's head off. Okay,
this is the kind of stuff that we're required to work with in
the maintenance shop.
We had another incident where two guys went at it, and another
... maintenance staff member was hurt. He got in the middle
of it, he was all stressed out, something popped in his head
- he hasn't been right since. We've had medical staff
physically attacked in the freezers and been forced to
medically retire. We could go on and on all day like this.
It's just a dangerous place to work, and I don't think I could
work under those conditions for 30 years. I've already put in
10 to get there, and I've been there 11; that's 22 years so
far, and I'm not even halfway. If I quit at 20 years, I don't
get medical, and there's other benefits that I don't get. So,
it's not just a matter of pay; it's a matter of the things
that I'm going to need to support myself and my family after
I quit. I just would ask that you support this bill.
MR. REAGLE told members that he supports "no frills," as prison
should be a punishment, not a place for inmates to be happy and
comfortable. However, what the legislature begins, he himself has
to carry out in his job, and it is difficult. He asked for
members' support in this, then concluded, "We're not asking you to
give us a lot, and we're a small portion of the state employees.
If you take a count of how many of us there are, support staff,
it's not that big of a number, and we're willing to pay our part of
it to make this happen."
Number 0143
REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY remarked that as a college student he had
the opportunity to work in the Oregon Correctional Institute in
Salem. He stated, "I understand what the feeling is like when the
door closes and you hear the 'clunk.' But the reality of it was
that I got to go home at night to a different place. I understand
your situation a little bit, but not nearly as much ... as you have
expressed." He asked how old Mr. Reagle would be if he were to
retire after 30 years.
MR. REAGLE said he would be 60 years old. He added, "But to be
honest with you, at this point, I've been going through some real
soul-searching in the last couple years, after ten years of
listening to inmates. And I really don't think I'm going to make
it 30 years at a prison. ... It beats you down, and you get tired
of it. And the older you get, the less energy you have to fight
it."
Number 0173
CHAIR JAMES acknowledged that her own visits to prisons have been
on tours. Her first experience with a lock-down facility was at
Oregon State Mental Hospital, where she worked for some time. Her
second experience was as a foster parent, when they took foster
children from the girls' reform school in Salem, Oregon. She
doesn't like lock-down facilities, she said, and she certainly
doesn't like to be with dangerous people. "So, we appreciate
everything that you do," she added.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS referred to a letter of support in committee
packets, dated April 2, 1999, from Byron Loomis, Trades Leadsman at
Spring Creek Correctional Center. Representative Davis read from
the second paragraph: "I supervise, hire and fire these same
felons and have a major impact on their quality of life in this
[institution]." Representative Davis commented on the stress and
risk of firing a felon from a job.
CHAIR JAMES responded that she is bothered that COs have training
but support staff do not. She said she believes that is more
important than money.
Number 0241
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS noted that there had been testimony that these
workers used to go through the academy. He said he assumes that
budget cuts put people in a lot of this risk situation.
CHAIR JAMES responded that she isn't sure they need to go through
the academy, but she believes they need regular training and
information about circumstances to be aware of.
Number 0257
REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY read from Mr. Loomis' letter, which stated,
"For me to have to work 10 years longer than the corrections staff
with the same conditions to receive a full pension is nothing short
of a travesty." Testimony indicates that support staff have more
prisoner contact than COs have, Representative Smalley noted; he
agreed that it is a travesty. He added that although he is sure
that they would like training, he believes that the benefits are
long-overdue to be looked at.
Number 0284
DON ETHERIDGE, District Council Laborers, came forward to testify
on behalf of Local 71. He said he himself couldn't take working in
the prisons. He recounted how he used to have to go to Lemon Creek
Correctional Center, as part of his duties in building maintenance,
on a fill-in basis. He had hated going out there, and he doesn't
even like going out there now to visit with members. He stated
that Local 71 supports this bill wholeheartedly.
Number 0301
BRUCE MASSEY, Food Service Foreman, Lemon Creek Correctional
Center, came forward to testify at length, noting that he is also
the shop steward for Local 71. He said the testimony from staff at
Spring Creek had been all-encompassing. He asked whether committee
members had at least been to Lemon Creek Correction Center.
CHAIR JAMES said she'd skipped that one, although she has been to
many more than one.
MR. MASSEY explained that he has been there ten years, noting that
staff get "institutionalized" themselves. For example, he waits
for doors to open at Nugget Mall, and he pulls out his elevator
keys in the State Office Building. Mr. Massey addressed training,
noting that he has taught karate in Juneau for 20 years. He told
members, "There's no amount of training that is going to take you,
or you, that is going to make you feel comfortable ... with the
people that we deal with. You know, it'd be a good thing, but
there's no way you're going to get a comfort level with it. ... So,
there's always going to be that doubt in your mind that you are, in
fact, in jeopardy when it comes down to firing this person, taking
this person and definitely making a huge impact on his life."
MR. MASSEY agreed that the main reason for prison disturbances is
poor food service. For 365 days a year, three meals a day, they
provide meals that must be of good quality, he said, and they
cannot be late. The kitchen is also inspected by the Department of
Environmental Conservation, although it isn't a big thing, because
they have plenty of labor, and they pride themselves at Lemon Creek
on keeping a clean kitchen. He himself trains people who run the
gamut as far as literacy. For example, if he hands a guy a book,
that person won't tell Mr. Massey he can't read. Rather, Mr.
Massey must figure out how to not insult him and yet get this
information, so that the inmate can become a more productive
worker. "And we can work with things like that," he added.
MR. MASSEY told members the kitchen is upstairs at Lemon Creek.
"If there's a disturbance, their first thing is that they are going
to slam the doors and I'm on my own," he said. In his ten years
there, he has broken up a number of fights. He stated, "The last
time I did wade into one, there was a knife involved. I was
splattered with blood. So, consequently, I get to go through a
series of tests to make sure that I'm not HIV-positive, which isn't
a real pleasant thought, you know, going home to my wife and my
children ...." He had been admonished somewhat by his superior for
going into that fight, he said, rather than waiting for other
staff. However, if he had waited five seconds, "the knife involved
would have been back into the guy who initially took it on this
young man."
MR. MASSEY agreed that staffing is down; consequently, they have
adjusted standards a great deal since he has been there. For
example, at Lemon Creek, one officer upstairs is responsible for
the kitchen and the dining hall, but must also go across the hall
to watch the educational center, then go back in the back room to
the hobby shop. That officer also can be called to assist on any
number of transports in and around the building, such as a maximum
security move, which requires two officers.
MR. MASSEY pointed out that the kitchen is also the center for
contraband. For example, sugar becomes "pruno," or jailhouse
liquor, which is dangerous. He stated:
The drugs aren't nearly as bad. If they're smoking "pot," you
know, they might fight over a Twinkie or two, but ... they
never get away with the booze. Once they have booze, there's
a fight in the dorms; you know it's there. And ... the things
they'll drink are just phenomenal; you would not believe what
they'll drink. They found out that one of our soap containers
was high in alcohol content; they all disappeared.
MR. MASSEY explained that there is a mind set among the prisoners
that most people aren't used to. He stated, "After you've been
there a while, you begin to look at things in a very, very
different manner. I'm a little unique: I like it there. I love
my job. I was pretty much made for it. I was raised in Detroit.
I brought a good sense of 'street smarts,' and I've been in
kitchens since I was 15. So, it's what I really love to do." Mr.
Massey said he looks for "that little spark, that little ray of
light, in which I can take this young man, out of ... the hundreds
that I train, and this kid might actually make it." He indicated
that a number of former inmates have been placed in jobs, after
being trained at the "Lemon Creek Cafe." He tries to provide those
skills, because if they can't get a job, they'll be back in prison.
MR. MASSEY pointed out that kitchen staff are continually
threatened with legal issues involving demands about special diets,
and their names may end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit.
Number 0443
MR. MASSEY emphasized that the testimony from staff at Spring Creek
is a daily reality. He couldn't do what the guards do, he said,
which is sit there, watch and wait; he prefers to be active and
productive. He has to take the same guys that the guards put their
hands on and then escort down the hall, though, and give them
knives. There are 26 inmates that work in the kitchen, and 12 to
15 knives that everybody uses. The knives are secured, he
explained, and counted. However, during the day when the general
population is not in the dining room, there are knives everywhere,
including Chinese cleavers, ten-inch French knives, a scimitar and
boning knives. However, the knives are the least of their worries,
because the 27 knives in his cabinet are secured and get counted.
"You take an industrial cook spoon, break the head off of it - now
you've got a weapon," he stated. "And we can't count everything in
the kitchen. We can't keep track of every little tool." He noted
that the superintendent at Lemon Creek, Dan Carothers, has a trophy
case in which he has a wide variety of weapons and drug
paraphernalia.
MR. MASSEY next referred to the testimony about inmates' constant
yelling in the lock-down unit, and he stated, "That's the mind set
we have. These guys have all the time in the world to simply think
of, 'How can I mess with you?' 'How can I get at you?' 'Cause you
made me mad, you fired me from my job."
MR. MASSEY pointed out that someone could get into the Internet
with a person's Social Security number and ruin that person's life.
He emphasized that although some of the testimony may have sounded
a bit paranoid, it is not. The staff are genuinely concerned about
any information that might get out about them. For many, including
him, it is from concern about their families. He indicated he is
generally successful at keeping such concerns out of his mind,
however.
MR. MASSEY mentioned that a person walking down Franklin Street in
Juneau, looking at 100 people, may be looking at 30 who have been
in Lemon Creek Correctional Center. Lemon Creek is a collection
center for prisoners who have committed crimes all over the state,
and then they choose to release here. "So, we're kind of importing
these people into the small town of Juneau," he said. "People in
the village, wherever they ... committed their crime, they don't
want them back, so that we get them funneled here. I'm sure ...
Anchorage has very much the same thing going on."
MR. MASSEY told members he has ten years of service, and he hopes
he can make it to 30. However, he doesn't know that he can. This
is a matter of equity, he emphasized. Although the support staff
are dedicated, it boils down to this: 20 years would allow them to
retire with some amount of sanity left. He concluded, "We think we
could make that. The 30 years is out there, a little bit of a
marathon."
Number 0510
VINCENT O'CONNOR, Adult Probation Parole Officer, Department of
Corrections; and President, Alaska State Employees Association /
American Federal, State, County and Municipal Employees
(ASEA/AFSCME), Local 52, testified via teleconference from
Fairbanks in support of HB 159. Employed by the Department of
Corrections for 18 years, he emphasized that medical staff,
clerical staff, maintenance staff and kitchen staff have the same
levels of stress, and the same contact, as COs or parole officers,
although the stress and contact may take different forms. Prison
populations include long-term offenders who have nothing to lose,
he said, as well as short-term offenders about whom the staff have
very little working knowledge. Based on a person's
classification-for-work records, the prisoners are placed for the
needs of the institution to accomplish work, and this puts everyone
in a position of jeopardy at times.
MR. O'CONNOR referred to the issue of fairness and concluded, "I
can't think of anybody in my career that has made 30 years in the
correctional center, in some of these other job classifications."
He added that the levels of stress usually result in higher
turnover, which probably is not in the best interest of the
employer, the state.
Number 0550
GUY BELL, Director, Division of Retirement and Benefits, Department
of Administration, came forward to explain why there is not yet a
fiscal note. With him was Bill Church, retirement systems manager,
who was working with the Department of Corrections (DOC) to get
relevant information about the employees who would be affected by
HB 159. Mr. Bell told members that the preliminary number is about
280 DOC employees who would be affected. Yesterday, they had
received data on these employees to then turn over to their
actuaries to get a cost estimate of HB 159. They had needed some
detailed data, because calculating the total cost requires looking
back over the employees' careers and determining the number of
years each person worked, his or her age, and basic data to
calculate cost on an individual basis. He expects to have that
done in the next two or three days.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked whether it will cost more money.
MR. BELL affirmed that, then explained why. Page 2, beginning at
line 4, reads: "The indebtedness is equal to (1) the contributions
to the system that the employee would have made if the service had
counted as peace officer service, less (2) the contributions to the
system that the employee actually made." The next sentence
addresses the interest on that. Mr. Bell pointed out that the bill
doesn't require the employee to make employer contributions that
would have been required. Because it offers a better benefit, it
also requires a higher employer cost. Effectively, this bill would
mean that the past service cost to the employer would affect the
employer's rate - in this case, the Department of Corrections or
the state of Alaska. Therefore, it will affect the state's rate.
Mr. Bell explained:
Basically, the cost is greater because you're talking about a
20-year retirement, which means that a person draws a
retirement benefit earlier, so they're getting a benefit for
more years, through their life. ... Depending on which tier
they were hired under, if they were hired originally in PERS
before July 1 of 1986, they are also getting system-provided
medical benefits, which the system, of course, pays for.
And there is a different multiplier, as Representative Davis'
staff mentioned, that a police officer in this system ...
after ten years of service has a benefit multiplier of
two-and-a-half percent per year of service; between 10 and 20
years for other PERS employees, it's two-and-a-quarter
percent. So, after 20 years of service, a police officer
position has a benefit entitlement of 45 percent of their
average three-year salary, whereas for a 'other PERS
employee,' it's forty-two-and-a-half percent. So, there's a
two-and-a-half percent differential in the benefit.
MR. BELL noted that a few employers besides the state of Alaska may
be affected by this. He concluded, "There are some jail
correctional facilities that are operated by other PERS employers
- the North Slope Borough, the City of Dillingham, we believe, have
correctional facilities. And the numbers I've given you do not
include youth detention facilities. This would just, as we
understand it, apply to adult corrections."
Number 0615
CHAIR JAMES asked the sponsor whether it was his intent to not
include the juvenile detention facilities.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he hadn't given it much thought.
CHAIR JAMES asked whether there were further questions of the
Administration, then noted that three more people in Seward wished
to testify.
Number 0620
CHARLES PALMER, Employee, Spring Creek Correctional Center,
testified via teleconference from Seward, saying that in 11 years,
they've gone through 19 stewards, who had either quit, died or
moved on. He said 80 percent of the inmates are
hepatitis-positive, yet they are issued knives in order to do their
jobs. It is just a matter of time, and he himself was assaulted
once, right before prisoners were moved to the prison facility in
Arizona.
Number 0635
RICHARD SLAGLE, Employee, Spring Creek Correctional Center,
testified via teleconference from Seward, saying he has been with
the Department of Corrections for five and a half years. During
that time, stewards have been grabbed by inmates and been damaged,
either medically or mentally, to where they cannot come back to
work around inmates. He mentioned the constant fear that something
could happen, then explained, "We issue knives to inmates early in
the morning. You don't know their attitude or their way of
thinking for that day. They could be mad at one of their other
inmates or something, and ... come in the kitchen and take out
their revenge in the kitchen. ... The 20-year-and-out would be more
beneficial. I believe you would have a better clientele of
stewards in the kitchen, more alert, more aware. Thirty years with
DOC in the kitchen is an impossibility for me, because ... I can
tell the stress level is about -- for me, would be ten years."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN requested clarification about the hepatitis
rate.
MR. SLAGLE answered that about 80 percent are hepatitis-positive.
He added, "We cannot discriminate against the inmate, as far as
their AIDS or hepatitis. We work around knives. Inmates get
nicked, cut. We issue Band-Aids. There's the threat of bloodborne
pathogens. And we work more directly with the inmates than police
officers do, because we're with them for a longer period of time.
We hire them, we fire them. And we're more in direct ... contact
with them, on a seven-and-a-half-hour basis."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what kind of hepatitis that is, and he
requested clarification about these people working in the kitchen.
MR. SLAGLE answered that it is B and C. He added, "As I've said,
you cannot discriminate against a person for their medical
reasons."
CHAIR JAMES asked whether people with tuberculosis would get to
work there.
MR. SLAGLE restated that they cannot discriminate against personnel
based on their medical condition.
Number 0694
MIKE HARBAUGH, Plumber, Maintenance, Spring Creek Correctional
Center, testified via teleconference from Seward, noting that he
had been there four and a half years. He said it takes a special
type of person to be able to work there. Correctional officers get
a weeks' break, as they work 12 hours a day but week on, then week
off. "We don't get that," Mr. Harbaugh noted. "We go home for two
days. We come back and have to face it again, and work directly
with the inmates."
MR. HARBAUGH explained that he works in very small areas with
felons, regularly. He started this job at age 42; he would like to
think it took him nearly that long to obtain the background and
commercial experience needed in such a large institution, where
there are 478 toilets, 525 sinks, 64 showers, and the associated
heating and plumbing, including water heaters. He was on the work
list with Local 71 for four and a half years before getting this
job, but he won't work there past 60 years of age. He believes
that would be physically impossible, as it is too hard a job.
MR. HARBAUGH told members the mental stress is tough. He stated,
"I grew up in a tough place, on the west side of South Bend, went
to high school where we had detectives carrying guns, and this was
... in the mid-to-late-60s. People got stabbed in my school." He
said maybe that background helps him put up with the mental and
physical abuse from inmates' bumping the staff, or yelling in the
lock-down facility for hours at a time: "You're gonna die!" or
"I'm gonna kill you!"
MR. HARBAUGH reported that he does enjoy the job. He has had the
benefit of seeing the fruition of training somebody who then gets
a job after getting out. "They may be doing plumbing on your place
this afternoon, I don't know," he added. Seeing people do better
is one thing that keeps him at the job. The other is the medical
benefits, which he needs. As he understands the 20-year program,
he could get the benefits when he retires immediately, whereas with
the 30-year program he would have to wait until age 65 to get
medical benefits. He reminded members that he is susceptible to
HIV and hepatitis. He works with effluent, crawling down manholes
full of it and unplugging things, for a daily living. He
concluded, "I'd just appreciate your support for this. Training
would be nice, but the 20-year retirement is also something that's
necessary and only fair."
CHAIR JAMES closed public testimony. She asked the representatives
from the Division of Retirement and Benefits if they could have a
fiscal note by the coming Thursday; they said they would do their
best. Chair James thanked all the participants, noting that the
testimony had been very moving. [HB 159 was held over.]
HJR 26 - ALASKA MARITIME BOUNDARY WITH CANADA
CHAIR JAMES announced her intention of moving from committee House
Joint Resolution No. 26, relating to establishing maritime
boundaries with Canada. She noted that it had been held over to
address the concerns of Representatives Hudson and Kerttula.
Number 0751
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON explained that he had wanted to find out
whether this would interrupt the ongoing Alaska-Canada salmon
negotiations. Although he wasn't able to get a final answer, he'd
received correspondence from the Alaska Trollers Association
indicating they support resolution of this boundary dispute.
Because he had no indication that it would adversely affect the
ongoing negotiations, he was withdrawing his resistance to moving
the resolution from committee.
Number 0762
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA told members, "My staff talked with the
Department of Fish and Game, and their sense of it was that it's a
good thing to state that Alaska should be part of these
negotiations, but with the budget cuts ... and less staff to do it,
they're not really sure how this is going to affect it. And I
guess I take the opposite point of view: I don't have any
indications that it's a good thing for us to be trying to get
involved." She said it is a sore issue, and she maintains her
objection.
Number 0770
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made a motion to move CSHJR 26(WTR) from
committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero
fiscal note; he asked unanimous consent. There being no objection
to moving the resolution, CSHJR 26(WTR) moved from the House State
Affairs Standing Committee.
HB 16 - LICENSURE OF ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES
CHAIR JAMES announced that the final item of business would be
House Bill No. 16, "An Act transferring to the Department of Health
and Social Services the authority to license all assisted living
facilities; eliminating the authority of the Department of
Administration to license assisted living facilities; and providing
for an effective date."
Number 0780
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor,
explained that HB 16 was drafted in response to a recommendation by
the Office of the Long-Term Care Ombudsman, in particular, their
report of investigation from October 3, 1998. One concern was that
licensing and operation of the Pioneers' Homes were, at one time,
under the exact same division and program. The people who
determine the day-to-day operation, and the people that determine
whether that operation meets minimum assisted living licensing
standards, were "uncomfortably close," creating a perception - and
possibly a reality - of a conflict of interest. Representative
Croft said it is a legitimate concern that they had tried to fix in
a relatively simple way, acknowledging that there aren't any simple
answers to these issues.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT told members this is a rapidly growing area of
our social infrastructure, particularly in the last five years.
The department's position has been that the growth of these homes
has taken the pressure off of nursing homes, which are much more
expensive. Substantial money can be saved if the assisted living
environment is managed, instead of putting people primarily into
nursing homes. The department believes, reasonably so, that this
is why nursing home numbers haven't grown at this speed.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT noted that there have been discussions of how
the state licenses its own operations. He said, "It is inherently
one that has elements of conflict of interest in it. But if we
don't do it - if we pass some statute that says, 'Because we
operate it, we assume we do it well' - we do a fundamental
disservice. We ought to recognize the potential for a conflict of
interest whenever we are judging our own operation, and at least
try and separate those as much as possible from the operation.
That's what HB 16, in its current form, does."
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT told members there may be many other ideas
about better licensing of assisted living homes; this started as a
small idea, fixing an issue with the Pioneers' Home. Some
discussion needs to happen in this committee, and some he believes
would be appropriate for the House Health, Education and Social
Services Committee, the bill's next referral. In whichever
committee it occurs, this is an area that could stand some
scrutiny, he said, either at this narrow level or the more broad
public policy level.
TAPE 99-23, SIDE A
Number 0001
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN commented that there seems to be disparity in
the fiscal notes; as he reads it, somebody thinks it is worth a lot
more to do the job than it is to get rid of it. He asked whether
that is accurate.
Number 0021
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said he thinks it is. He reported that the
department is very concerned about doing this job well. If
licensure is moved from the Department of Administration, where the
Pioneers' Homes are run, into the Department of Health, Education
and Social Services (DHSS), the DHSS is very reluctant to take this
responsibility on without adequate funding, as they don't believe
they currently have the personnel needed to accomplish that task
well. That is where much of the fiscal note comes from.
Number 0045
CHAIR JAMES asked that testifiers limit comments to three minutes
because of time constraints.
Number 0057
KAY BURROWS, Director, Division of Senior Services (DSS),
Department of Administration, testified via teleconference from
Anchorage, noting that her division currently has responsibility
for assisted living licensing. She stated:
As Representative Croft has just mentioned, we believe the
issue is really adequate resources for assisted living, not
who does it, or a conflict of interest. The Division of
Senior Services had no additional resources given to it in
1995, when this bill, the statute for assisted living, was
first passed. DMHDD [Division of Mental Health and
Developmental Disabilities] had a small amount. However,
between the two of us, we license over 220 assisted living
homes in the state today.
The growth has been major, as Representative Croft mentioned.
We had approximately 45 to 50 homes in 1995, which covered
assisted living for seniors. Today, we have over 90 homes,
without the [Pioneers'] Homes, which are six. There are more
than 130 in DMHDD today.
We do support this bill with the attached fiscal notes. And,
as Representative [Ogan] mentioned, part of our reasoning for
this is that we believe that adequate resources are not
currently available, and need to be made available for the
growth of this industry.
There are four roles for the state in assisted living. They
are: licensing of these homes; investigation of the homes;
quality monitoring; and capacity development. DSS
(indisc.--coughing) its role in all four - for all the homes,
not just the [Pioneers'] Homes. We have had a great deal of
difficulty getting to quality monitoring and capacity
development, due to the increase in licensing and
investigation responsibilities.
Assisted living licensing and homes is a newly developing
business. It is a critical industry for the state, for three
reasons: as Representative Croft mentioned, the growth of the
senior population, which is considered to be from about 28,000
today to over 80,000 in the year 2015; and the cost of
long-term care, if using the current nursing home model, would
require public funding of around $72 million in 1996,
increasing to $370 million in the year 2015. This is an
enormous increase in public funding demands for long-term
care, because of the population growth. Assisted living is
one of the answers for that. And the third reason is that
people needing long-term care want choices. They want more
homelike environments and less institutional environments.
Home- and community-based care has been a rapidly growing
field.
Whoever does licensing investigation, therefore, has a growth
industry in their hands, with a newly defined type of care and
lots of learning for the state to be done. Alaskans are
choosing assisted living as a long-term care provider. The
state must carefully license and inspect all homes,
particularly the non-state-owned homes. This is a broader
issue than just the [Pioneers'] Homes and the perceived
conflict. It is an important one for our state, and, as
Representative Croft has mentioned, it has a number of policy
issues.
Number 0136
SHELBY LARSEN, Administrator, Health Facilities Licensing and
Certification (HFL&C), Division of Medical Assistance, Department
of Health and Social Services, testified via teleconference from
Anchorage. He said he believes his agency would likely be
responsible for licensing of assisted living homes if this bill
were to pass. The attached fiscal note was based on their
experience doing statewide surveys and certification of health
facilities. It was based on the costs involved in travel and doing
an annual onsite survey or investigation of each facility. They
believe that the fiscal note is reasonable for taking on 225
facilities that are, literally, all over the state. He agreed that
this is a rapidly growing industry, one that certainly needs
adequate quality control and licensure.
Number 0176
CHAIR JAMES commented that if the amount per day doesn't come up
from $34.50 for these people, it will be a declining industry,
because nobody will be willing to do it.
Number 0187
MONTA FAYE LANE, President, Alaska Caregivers Association,
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, noting that she owns
two assisted living homes in North Pole. She stated:
I think that this assisted living bill, ... HB 16, needs to be
moved from the Division of Senior Services, because I believe
that it is getting bigger and more costly to the division.
And I think that the division needs to concentrate on the care
of the seniors in assisted living homes, and not in licensing.
Those funds need to come from somewhere else in the state. I
don't know where. You guys, that's your job to find it.
But I think that Pioneers' Homes and assisted living, under
this bill, means to me that we are all the same. You guys
down there take care of Pioneers' Homes. Those are
state-funded. ... And we in the small homes must meet the same
standards as do Pioneers' Homes, but we sure do not have the
state benefits, as they do. And I think licensing should
clearly be moved.
MS. LANE agreed with raising the base rate for assisted living
homes. Otherwise, she said, some of the larger, older assisted
living homes in this state - which are good assisted living homes
- will fall by the way, "because we cannot become a dumping ground
for Denali Center, some of the mentally ill that API [Alaska
Psychiatric Institute] no longer wants." She said the rate must
come up to the $70 a day that they had requested, with a
geographical differential; otherwise, it is not going to be that
much help.
Number 0225
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked whether people living in these homes
are able to draw upon Medicaid or other federal funding.
MS. LANE replied, "We have some Medicaid clients in our home that's
under the new project in the state of Alaska called Project Choice,
and we are getting sicker and older people. And we do have a
little bit of compensation coming that way for a general relief
client, but there is no extra money there for general relief
clients, who are still at $34.50 a day in this vicinity here. And
that's been the same since 1991. When I obtained my license for
the state of Alaska, we were at $30.90 a day. And I wrote some
letters to the Division of Youth and Family Services, who were the
ones who licensed us at that time, and they gave us a raise to
$34.50 a day, and that has remained there since 1992. ... If you
live in this Interior, and you have to pay the rising cost of fuel
and electricity, you can see that we have not even been (indisc.)
with the rate of Social Security increases; had we ... had that for
the last 10 or 12 years, we would now be at $68 a day, instead of
$34.50."
Number 0264
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked, "How many times, in the two homes that
you have, have you been inspected over the last two years?"
MS. LANE answered, "I have drop-bys all the time from the Division
of Senior Services, adult protection agency, and licensing. As for
an inspection, I am inspected every year. I am monitored yearly.
We also have association meetings in each others' homes, so we do
police one another in this area, and we're trying the same thing
... in Anchorage. As far as investigations, I've had a few of them
myself, because one time I had someone who made a complaint on me,
because they saw some garbage on my porch, which -- we don't have
garbage service in North Pole."
Number 0296
FRED LAU, Homer Seniors, testified via teleconference from Homer,
indicating his organization runs Friendship Terrace, an assisted
living facility that is a 40-unit apartment complex with 25
residents. He spoke in opposition to HB 16, from the standpoint
that they believe the present licensing is doing an adequate job
for assisted living facilities throughout the state. He said they
share Representative Croft's concern about the Pioneers' Homes.
However, they believe that what is happening now with the Division
of Senior Services (DSS) is what was intended to happen: placing
all of the senior programs under the DSS. In fact, he said, the
long-term care task force had recommended that they not transfer
certain aspects to the DHSS without a thorough study of whether
that is really needed.
MR. LAU suggested that members look at whether the DSS has adequate
funding to do the licensing. "But as far as what's being done
right now, I think they're doing an adequate job," he added. He
then expressed concern that a switch in licensing, while it may
place everything together, may also change a philosophy. Assisted
living looks at the individual in terms of ability to make choices
and maintain independence. Unless there are assurances that if it
were transferred to the DHSS there wouldn't be a move towards a
medical-clinical model, they are concerned. Mr. Lau explained,
"Right now, we're in more of a social model, and we involve
families in decisions, and people are allowed to make choices, in
terms of what they want to do on a daily basis. And we don't want
to see that moved back towards the medical-clinical model, which
places more emphasis on clinical personnel making decisions for
people." He said that change in focus is the biggest concern. He
also expressed concern that he doesn't know the amount of the
fiscal note.
Number 0335
CHAIR JAMES indicated she would fax Mr. Lau the fiscal notes. She
stated her understanding that he sees a problem with the Pioneers'
Homes, then asked whether he sees a need to separate the licensing
between the Pioneers' Homes and other assisted living homes.
MR. LAU clarified that he wasn't implying that there is a problem
with the Pioneers' Homes; although stories in the news may suggest
there is a problem, he doesn't know whether it is actual or just
perceived, as he is not involved in the details. He said he hopes
they aren't lumped into this whole thing, and transferred to the
DHSS because of the situation that presently exists, looking at the
Pioneers' Homes.
CHAIR JAMES asked whether Mr. Lau perceives a conflict because the
same agency that administers the homes does the licensing.
MR. LAU replied, "I don't think that that's a major problem, in my
mind. I think those things can be taken care of in other ways.
For instance, one of the recommendations from the long-term care
task force, I think, was to implement standards, adopt standards
from different national organizations. I think those can be put in
place, to make sure that some of those problems are taken care of."
He referred to the DSS and said he doesn't have a feeling that
there is a conflict there, in terms of management. He believes
that other agencies and departments that manage facilities have
just as much of a conflict, in terms of state-run schools and
similar types of facilities.
Number 0399
CHAIR JAMES thanked Mr. Lau, then announced that public testimony
was concluded. She asked whether the Administration wished to add
anything.
Number 0409
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Health and Social Services, told members that
assisted living homes are a real success story. Five years ago,
there were a handful in the state. The DSS and his department's
DMHDD have done a very good job with the responsibility, not only
for licensure but for actually increasing the number of facilities
in the state, to where now there are hundreds. However, it is a
maturing industry, and he doesn't believe it is inappropriate to
raise the question of changing the focus - development of homes and
creating access - to now perhaps looking at a different sort of
regulatory regime that will ensure that these remain viable and
safe alternatives to nursing home care.
MR. LINDSTROM referred to the fiscal note. He pointed out that it
doesn't take many nursing home beds at $100,000-plus per bed, per
year, to make the cost of an adequate regulatory regime appear
insignificant. Although it is a success story, he said, and they
want to continue to see development of these homes, certainly
everyone wishes to ensure that they continue to be safe and good
alternatives where people can reside.
CHAIR JAMES thanked Mr. Lindstrom and concluded the hearing. [HB
16 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
Number 0443
There being no further business before the committee, the House
State Affairs Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 9:58 a.m.
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